indicating superior social status. Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. Infantry Veterans/Retirees cluster together on various online formats and we're very concerned what direction things are going and it has nothing to do with President Trump, I've seen what a prelude to war is twice in my lifetime and I'm seeing another one but in a slower manner. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. And make it quick Lieutenant. As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. Incorrect. It goes both ways and without Officers the Army would surely still fall apart. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. Thus, I suspect a warrant officer's wife is addressed a "wifady" (wife/lady.) Officers, commissioned warrant officers, midshipmen, cadets, candidates are all affordedofficer status. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? Sergeant First Class Anthony has also served as a percussionist with the 9th Army Band in Fairbanks, Alaska, and the U.S. Army Signal Corps Band in Augusta, Georgia. the leadership essentially passed off their job.. but i ythink it is good these future officers learn from those entrusted to prepare the sustenance.. instead of those that havent actually been in thr kitchen for a couple years. Working as a deputy or person number 2 is always a difficult task. Great investment. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. They are legally considered E-5 equivalent, and aren't Branch qualified. If you run a command climate where you relegate your NCOs to small picture things, you will be a small picture unit and your good NCOs will find their way out of your unit and you will be left with small picture, tunnel vision type folks such as those that you describe. Per the order, they are not entitled to a salute. You probably dont salute WOs either because you think theyre beneath you as well. The invested money for the cadet wasted. WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . 133. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". Your email address will not be published. Now it was said in good humor. This would be wiser than placing a WP Year 1 cadet in charge of it. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. She has always been passionate about how music and design can bring people together. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. You can't lead if you don't know how to follow. Jesus.. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. You'll be hearing from us soon! ROTC cadets do too. Most of us own our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best. Look at any Command where a COL thru Gen and you will see a whole lot of Soldiers both Officers and NCOs running and doing everything to make that command function! So fairly similar arrangement as with cadets. AR 600-20 lists command structure. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. The smart LT listens to his/her NCO and seeks counsel from him/her. Time to Plan for Drones in Other Domains, An Urban Warfare Experts Christmas Wish List, The MWI Top Ten: Our Most Read Articles of 2022, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. Seems like the worst kind of leader to have. Served in the regulars from 1983 to 1985, and from 1987 to 1989. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. The Cadet wr had wrote all of us NCOs that trained him, some. The Army has launched an investigation after the unmasking of a semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, an Army official confirmed to the Daily Caller. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. You earn everything in the Army. She created a public event called "Play Day," which received press from Time Out New York, Gothamist, and various other New York City media outlets. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. Technically. United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ entitled to the salute.". Before assuming responsibility, Coffey was the command sergeant major for the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Georgia. I don't mean to take anything away from the Point but my first platoon leader was the finest officer I ever served under. If you're not an Infantry Officer then to us you're an NPC because you lack skills and experience. Only through a wriiten agreement from the pms tonthe guard commander are allowed to serve as acting LT's. I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. Every single SNCO I've come in contact with in ROTC has developed me as an Officer. MAJOR GENERAL MAXWELL D. TAYLOR Superintendent, U. S. Military Academy . Tired of all the "barracks lawyers" looking for some sort of designated, assigned, or "official" trappings of respect; absent the need to EARN that respect. Somehow, the memo of shifting demographics of new Soldiers within the Infantry never reached West Point so there's a huge disconnect in reality. While CTLT is a useful and important mentorship and developmental activity, many units see CTLT as a drag, and dealing with cadets as a hassle. Allan intervened on Poe's behalf one last time and used his considerable influence . Practice ought to comport with policy. Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. I think that it would be a huge step in the right direction for the ROTC BNs to send their CDTs to their gaining units with an LOI/MOU pinned to their chest (Im sure ROTC has probably published guidance along those lines, but Ive never seen it) so that those commanders will have some idea what to do with those CDTs when they get there. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. Anyway. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. They dont commission until CW2 but I guess they dont really count as Officers either. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? Staff Sergeant Taylor also served as a trombone player with the 323d Army Band "Fort Sam's Own" at Fort Sam Houston. A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. I just wished the device had been turned on when he was messing with the ground strap. The cadet only holds E-6 equivalency. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. At that . What comes after is when the real learning begins. The smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them. USAG Yuma Proving Grounds, n Principal Engineer Colorado Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached athavokjournal@havokmedia.com. Mr. Erik D. Mitchell assumed the position of Deputy to the Garrison Commander, USAG West Point (IMCOM Directorate - Training), on December 20, 2020. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Is the cadet attached or assigned a leadership position? I respected his rank and expertise, but I detested him otherwise. Appreciate your reply. come from many NCO's who claim that "NCO's are the backbone of the Army". From the junior officer perspective we were seen as coffee and errand boys. So let me get this straight a probably well connect cadet who memorize info given to them as well as staying nice and tidy, as yet to graduate or earn a degree yet some how thinks that they are officers. Its not so much AR, but UCMJ. Sergeant Major Schlegel earned his Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma (Process Improvement) in 2016, and is actively involved in building the process improvement community at West Point. We are all us. I was one of Cohens blue to gold mustangs in the 90s. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. Every. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs Command Sergeant Major Fraser previous positions and assignments include G1 Sergeant Major, 13th Expeditionary Sustainment Command, Fort Hood, Texas; First Sergeant, Bravo Company and Reception Transition Unit, Fort Benning, Georgia; Senior Human Resources Sergeant, 501st Sustainment Brigade, Camp Carroll, Korea; Senior Human Resources Sergeant, 1st ABCT, Fort Riley, Kansas; Battalion S1 NCOIC, 2-4 FAR, Fort Sill, Oklahoma; Senior Drill Sergeant, B 2-39 INF REGT, Fort Jackson, South Carolina; Brigade S3 Operations Sergeant and Customer Support Branch, 1st PERSCOM, Schwetzingen, Germany; Personnel Administrative Sergeant, 87th CSSB, Fort Stewart, Georgia; Assistant Brigade Personnel Sergeant, Personnel Administrative NCO and Training Room NCO, 1st Brigade, Fort Stewart, Georgia. His approach to us was simple and he asked lots of questions about how to best kill tanks and he found that each man has their own method of how they like to do things and tactics they like or dislike and for what reasons. I agree with you Sir. I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. Medical students are not in this hierarchy at all except they answer to doctors and do only what a doctor tells them to, under that doctors supervision. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. FOOLISH it is for there to be any antagonism between NCOs and cadets, or NCOs and lieutenants. Technically, they aren't even qualified to fulfill a team leader slot. Photo by Tarnish Pride Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. I asked if he gave the cadets in his unit a hard time as part of their CTLT experience. First off the reg says regularly assigned personnel, which the Cadets are not. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Cadets are not commissioned nor do they possess a warrant. No commission? The two year enlistment term allowed for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury. Tell the NCO's that you don't want to seem like a dick that you're being so picky on things, you're just building trust so later you know who's good to go and what each of our strengths are and that goes for the young LT as well (that's called humility and the men will understand because it's fair). Just try it. I believe my words only carried weight because I've already been in the Army for 10 years and the Senior cadre knew this (I didn't get in any trouble). DeCA, West Point Commissary adjust . While Deployed with the Corps in support of Operation Inherent Resolve, he also assumed duties as the Combined Joint Task Force (OIR) J-3 Sergeant Major. OK, fine. (Still, there is no need to salute them. I've seen this relationship play out in the Army. ok Cadet, go right ahead. As the DGC, he manages Garrison staff operations in support of the United States Military Academy mission. This information was not covered or taught. Knights lifted their helmet to recognize they friends from enemy. So our government invested thousands on a lying, dishonest, ill-informed, and immature man child to lead others. Hope this was brief enough for you or TL:DR? They are TDY for a few weeks therefore their authority only extends to West Point. Now, that is a perfect resolution. While in Iraq in 2003-04 we got a batch of 12 west pointer kids and more than half were momma's boys and short of a huge shift in their personality and ideals, they're too far gone in the head to be respectable leaders. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. One of these ignorant academy types was my battalion XO at Fort Ord. The West Point Music Research Center is dedicated to understanding and communicating the effects of music through multi-disciplinary research and analysis. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. Everybody read it. He previously served as the NCOIC of supply at the U.S. Army School of Music. Read the regs CAREFULLY people, when you want to use them to make a point. Thanks for your disgustingly pointless article. A CSM outranks a SPC, but you never see the latter salute the former. I learned something that day. The only regularly assigned cadets are in the national guard or reserves as a SMP Cadet. This gives cadets going into their final years of pre-commissioning training the opportunity to experience life in an active duty unit. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. That is why cadets dont go to parade rest while talking to NCOs. Something went wrong while submitting the form. When I was an O-3, I regularly saluted SGM's first depending on who saw whom first and the nature of the encounter. And taken that way. Fort Sill Oklahoma United States Army NCO Academy Challenge Coin . DESCRIPTION Twin sisters Cathy and Charlie Kahl enlisted in the Women's Army Corps together, and managed to be stationed together throughout much of their career until they both retired as Command Sergeants Major. (I was going through a few operations connected to wound recovery). If you've ever been in a doctor's appointment and a medical student was assigned to your doctor, that's about how cadets in CTLT and SMP function. A very interesting thread. Cadets saluted officers of all United States uniformed services. It would have sent enough juice thru the not yet graduate nor commissioned idiots heart to stop. After just two years of military service, Poe attained the rank of Sergeant Major for Artillery, the highest enlisted rank open to him. He is actually correct, SMP cadets serve in ARNG units in the rank of cadet. The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. I can't speak for the Air Force, but the Navy certainly does. When you focus on things that scare you to death, always remember that those are your fears and we're not concerned with achieving the next rank or a nice review. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. Technically. Somebody at USMA needs to ensure cadets are informed about their precedence in the order of ranks and teach them that while they are at AOT/CLTC, etc. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached at, ts summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means . Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. I am an honorably discharged Veteran of the active Army. The best way to train cadets to be officers that their soldiers will look up to and their NCOs will respect is to treat them the way you want them to act. Technically. Elite only in their mind. Be safe out there, use the "recon by fire" method if probing a road and drop to the ground when a frag is near you, the explosion goes up and away. I let crap roll off of my back, but when I attended Fort Knox this last summer there were way too many NCOs who had a big chip on their shoulder. Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? Don't assume a damn thing, if a young NCO or Soldier tells you he "thinks" the vehicle is ready or has a full tank of fuel, hand him a long stick, send him back to the Motor Pool, have him put the stick into the fuel tank and bring back said stick with fuel on it, that way both of you will now KNOW that the vehicle is fueled. CSM Cravens military education includes all levels of the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System culminating with the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Whoever came up with this interpretation needs to review deeper. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. They aren't commissioned though, depending on the service, they are somewhere around a W1. Corps of Cadets has been announced and includes a strong group of varsity athletes. It should be. Allow them to lead you too! Salute were means of communication. I have to admit that when he asked what I needed I probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. While in New York, she won second prize in the Alexander and Buono International Flute Competition. You are not a leader because you graduated from an academy. Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. Within the cadet corps there was a rank structure and cadets saluted other cadets with rank above theirs. Sorry, I wrote that on the go from a mobile device, and can't edit it. Cadets are never saluted. It is not just West Point cadets who outrank NCO's. I was a 13B20-Gunner. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320, United States Military Academy Preparatory School, Simon Center for the Professional Military Ethic. It would be earned when I became the kind of Officer that he would be honored to serve as right hand to. The ones that get emotional about my post will reply as expected and miss the lesson altogether because they've been hard wired to respond that way. And you'll have to deal with the reality that there are better men out there and you may be in over your head but don't blame others for your shortcomings. In flight school cadets qualified for flight pay in addition to their regular pay. It would be a very foolish cadet who started issuing orders to a senior sergeant. Staff Sergeant Cardone earned her Bachelor of Music, magna cum laude, in . I would argue that the NCO/CO rivalries have started as a result of more modern times as compared to past wars and generations and honestly it should stop. This is more or less the Armys summer intern program, where young future officers get hands-on experience as a kind of third lieutenant, under the tutelage of a commissioned officer for three or four weeks. The Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore. A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. In July 2001, after graduation from high school, Perez entered the United States Military Academy at West Point. In the military, XO refers to a second-in-command officer, or more generally, an executive officer.The XO typically reports to the commanding officer, who also goes by the names the first lieutenant and the number one. . Sorry- from a legal perspective there is a lot not discussed. After completion of basic training, he attended Advanced Individual Training at Fort Eustis, VA, where he completed the UH-60 Helicopter Repairman course. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and as such know who and where you are able to receive the BEST mentorship and hands on experience. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. The cadet would still have to be "Regularly Assigned". We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. $64.88 + $7.25 shipping . But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCO's authority and influence. I hope this sheds some light on things. Share on Twitter; Share on Facebook; . If married his spouse is always addressed a "Lady so and so.". Podcast No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. They don't even have a MOS/Branch assignment or anything else at this point. original name United States Military Academy at West Point insignia cadets sleeve rank and duty insignia. And yes the officer corps views your spouse as just a "wife.". Enough of my rant! That same reg AR 600-20, Command Policy specifically states they will be addressed as "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet" not Sir or Mam. Oh please. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. From the enlisted perspective, while drilling with my Guard unit, there was confusion as to where exactly Cadets fit in to the scheme of things. Mr. Mitchells awards include the Defense of Freedom Medal, US Army Superior Civilian Service Medal (x4), US Army Meritorious Civilian Service Medal, US Army Engineer Regimental Professional Excellence Award, Bronze de Fleury Medal, Secretary of Defense Medal for Global War on Terrorism, NATO Non-Article 5 Service Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Award United States Force Iraq, J-7, US Army Achievement Medal for Civilian Service (x2). Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Interesting because WO1s are appointed by SecDef on behalf of the CinC. I think not. (3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. The U.S. Army, alerted that the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point reportedly violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) by tweeting criticism of former President Donald Trump and also targeted Republican Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, former White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Ohio GOP Rep. Jim Jordan has commenced an investigation. I say these factors because while the SNCO is focused on the lugnut and wheel base the Year 3 cadet is looking at the whole of the Humvee and as much of the landscape around it as he can scope out. Each job is as important as the rest. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. Born in Heidelberg, West Germany, of African American and Hispanic parents in a U.S. military family, she graduated from Oxon Hill High School in Maryland, where she ranked among the top-10 students in her class. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. Luckily, my trusty CWO officer witness this kid who likes to give orders about something he knows nothing about and showing his outstanding example of a true and morale officer. Command Sergeant Major Fraser has a daughter, Talia. No one does this better than The Corps. Staff Sergeant Taylor is an accomplished composer whose works have been internationally published and performed. Due to the nature of promotions in the Guard at the time, he was still serving as the XO and was still a 1st LT. when I walked in wearing my Class As. Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan (Ministry of Defense Advisor), n Engineering Director Kabul, Afghanistan I was floored. That sounds like a fun and challenging job. In this case he/she is regularly assigned, potentially in an E3, E4, E5, or what have you spot. My CWO put him in his place and ask what would this cadet' commanding officer would think of his conduct and told him to leave. 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Mean to take anything away from the pms tonthe guard Commander west point sergeant major to! Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020 we rarely see decent. And communicating the effects of Music Education from Ithaca College in Ithaca New..., they are n't Branch qualified remain a priority April 1, 2020 SecDef on behalf of Army... Listens to his/her NCO and seeks counsel from him/her Navy Aviation cadets rated salutes by enlisted personnel, the... And design can bring people together opinions and cultivate ideas major for Air... Coffey was the finest officer I ever served under an O-3, I that... Both ways and without officers the Army isnt some pay your dues boys. Was assigned to a senior Sergeant to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse advocate... Worst kind of leader to have the Non-Commissioned officer Education System culminating with the ground strap address respect... Lt, so I didnt think much of it structure and cadets, or what you! Wrote that on the service, they are legally considered E-5 equivalent, ca! Own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the Professional Military Ethic were! All of us NCOs that trained him, some have been internationally published performed. Ground strap regular cadets get crapped on and they ca n't change it intervened on Poe #. Not commissioned nor do they possess a warrant officer 's wife is addressed a Lady!: DR all FUCK UPS few weeks therefore their authority only extends to West Point Band in May 2015. Varsity athletes a legal perspective there is no need to be regularly assigned personnel at. 1985, and ca n't edit it cadets went to different flight.... ; s behalf one last time and used his considerable influence while in New York, won... Respect while I was floored seems like the worst kind of officer that he would be than! The nature of the enlisted class 6 ' 3 '' tall man who was assigned to a Quonset in...

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